Genghis Khan was one of the most historically revered leaders, conquering more landmass than anyone before or since. His ferocity in battle and brutal crushing of those who dared defy him seemed irreconcilable to a legal system that was revolutionary for its time.
Much mystery has always surrounded Genghis Khan and from that mystery much misunderstanding has grown and perhaps clouded his legacy. John Man has done more to reveal the secret history of the Mongols than any other author. John Man was kind enough to answer questions recently on Genghis and his fascination with Central Asia.
IBR: A UK book reviewer ended his review of Genghis Khan, in reference to Kublai Khan, with “leaving a legacy to the world of precisely nothing” - is that a fair statement?
John Man: In terms of culture – of direct legacy – it’s fair enough. But the indirect legacy was significant. The Mongols were great facilitators. Of course they believed that the Mongols were the best, but as long as their subjects acknowledged this, they were without other prejudices. Talent was all. They employed all nationalities and religions, without discrimination, as bureaucrats, artisans, doctors, officers, and artists. They put China in touch with Persia, and vice versa. There had never been an exchange of talent on this scale. Yet it true that to this astonishing mix the Mongols added nothing of their own.
IBR: What do you think was Genghis’s major contribution to civilisation besides his now well known DNA?
John Man: Genghis (or perhaps his heirs) believed the whole world was destined to fall under Mongol rule. Nothing else in their view could explain their astonishing success. There was one major problem: they had no idea of the world’s true extent and complexity. Kublai, Genghis’s grandson, inspired by this vision, conquered all China. His personal domain was present-day China, plus Mongolia, with other members of his family ruling much of the rest of Asia and the Middle East. It was Kublai’s fate to discover the limit of what was possible. He failed to expand his frontiers in five major expeditions: Burma, Vietnam, Java and Japan – twice. That left China pretty much as it is today, minus Mongolia. That is Genghis’s major contribution to civilization – the borders of today’s China.
IBR: Why do you think Genghis was never that interested in Japan? Surely he would have known of it, and why was Kublai Khan suddenly drawn to it albeit disasterously?
John Man: Genghis would not have been aware of Japan. There were sea-borne Chinese and Korean traders who knew of it, but no land-based ruler thought about conquest until Kublai, with his dream of world rule. He was drawn to it because he was driven to try to fulfill the will of Heaven. Of course, it all went horribly wrong, through a combination of arrogance, bad leadership and bad luck.
IBR: Do you think that Japan’s lack of contact with the Mongol army resulted in the cultural differences we see today between Japan, China and Korea?
John Man: These three cultures had long-standing differences, which were remarkably unaffected whatever the military conquests. Japan and Korea owed much to China, the dominant culture. Each derived from China Buddhism, writing systems, philosophies, theories of education, and much more; but Japan and Korea modified and adapted in their own way. The failed Mongol invasions of 1274 and 1281 confirmed Japan in its own self-image: a nation under Heaven’s protection, superior to everyone else, isolationist to an extreme. Would a Mongol victory have changed Japanese culture? Superficially, certainly; but probably not fundamentally, bacuse the Mongols were more interested in their victims’ compliance than in cultural imperialism.
IBR: Alexander's conquests from a territorial perspective were approximately half of Genghis Khan’s and yet in the west we seem more interested in Alexander than perhaps Genghis. Is it simply proximity or is it more is known and recorded about Alexander’s exploits?
John Man: Yes. People are always more concerned about their own back yard than distant lands. But also Alexander was a great self-promoter and a great internationalist. Historians recorded his every move. Genghis’s people kept all records secret. The empire was at heart a family affair. It took Marco Polo, who worked for Kublai for 17 years, to bring the empire to western attention, and even then no one was sure whether to take him seriously or not. Other records were in many different languages, and it is only in the last century or so that Mongolists have begun the task of coordinating the records.
IBR: What was the basis of Genghis Khans legal system, was it adapted from a conquered land or was it based on tribal traditions and structures in Mongolian society of the time?
John Man: Genghis ordered an adopted relative, Shigi, to keep legal records, but the ‘laws’ have survived only in secondary form. It seems they were not binding laws, but off-the-cuff rulings, which might have become the basis for a body of law, but did not in fact become so, because the sub-empires – Chinese, Central Asian, Persian, Russian – all developed their own codes.
IBR: Do you think that they all eventually find and confirm his final resting place? do they actually need to?
John Man: Genghis was smart enough to rely on good advisers. One, a northern Chinese named Yelu Chutsai, persuaded him that brutality was not the basis of good government. Austerity, wisdom, care for the common people – those were the keys to universal and eternal rule. To that end Genghis adopted the role of a sage and simple nomad, rejecting luxury, sharing his food and clothing with his men. When he died, in north China, his body was carried back to his homeland in north Mongolia for a secret burial. The same place was chosen for Kublai and several other relatives. No one knows where it is. People like to imagine it as a grave filled with treasures. I think it is more likely that in death he preserved his role as austere sage. And if his heirs wished it to be secret, then secret it will remain.
IBR: Why Mongolia? I understand you speak the language and have spent a great deal of time understanding its history and culture.
John Man: As an undergraduate in Oxford in the 1960s, I wanted to go somewhere really remote. An expedition was planned to Mongolia. It sounded very romantic. I was totally unqualified, but offered to learn the language and act as interpreter. The whole thing was crazy, but that was not apparent until the expedition was cancelled. By then, I had done a course in Mongolian at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London. I forgot everything very quickly. I became a journalist, editor, and finally writer. When the Soviet Union collapsed, it became possible to go there, and I did a book on the Gobi. That revealed the true key to Mongolia – Genghis. The Empire created by him and his heirs was perhaps the most astonishing adventure in human history. I have been trying to grasp it and explain it ever since.
IBR: Mongolia was very much part of the developing world and to some extent still is, do you think the recent exploitation of its mineral wealth will have a positive effect on the countries future?
John Man: A positive effect? Time will tell. Undoubtedly a huge effect, because one copper mine alone, Oyu Tolgoi, in the southern Gobi, will produce 30% of Mongolia’s GDP. Most of this, and the related deposits of gold and coal, will be heading south, to China. The effect will have ramifications of both countries, and the world.
IBR: In you book on Genghis Khan, you paint a picture of a people that are not that materialistic. Are modern Mongolians still very much the same way?
John Man: Well, they have always been as materialistic as everyone else. It’s just that not much was available. Nomads herding sheep and horses cannot afford to be burdened with too many goods. Now things are changing. With a booming economy, the capital Ulaanbaatar is a mass of high-rises, new hotels, 4x4s and pollution. Young people love it, the middle aged fear for their childrens’ health. Many mourn the loss of the old nomadic ways, but only a few fight to preserve them. In some ways it doesn’t matter, because 95% of the country is road-less, fenceless steppe and desert and forest. It will probably all be affected eventually, but there’s a way to go yet.
IBR: Do you think Genghis would recognise his ancestors or did he have a different vision for Mongolia’s place in the world eight hundred years on?
John Man: Yes, I think he would recognize the way of life practiced by Mongolians in the countryside today, if you ignore the motorbikes and satellite dishes. Herding techniques and horse-riding skills remain very much the same. Probably he had no thoughts beyond the next conquest. He was no theoretician. But success certainly inspired his heirs with the grand idea of world conquest. I think he would be gratified to see what his conquests led to, and amazed to learn that they were achieved not by horsemen riding over vast tracts of open country but by city-based warriors and Chinese siege technology.
IBR: What is the process of writing an epic history such as Genghis Khan. The planning, the time lining of events, the research or the drafting - which part was the greatest challenge?
John Man: The key was personal experience. There was no point rivaling academics and general-interest writers. To do something different and original I want to address, and perhaps solve, three basic questions: how did he do it? Where did he die? Where was he buried? The first involved looking at modern leadership theory (which eventually led to a book on its own, The Leadership Secrets of Genghis Khan). The second led me to a remote part of northern China, to a valley where, very probably, he died. And the third has led me several times to his homeland in Khentii, northern Mongolia, and the mountain which he regarded as sacred and on which most Mongolians believe he is buried. I found some answers, but a great many more questions still to be answered.
IBR: What do you think is the wests most common misunderstanding about Mongolia?
John Man: That Genghis and his Mongols hordes were nothing but barbarians. He and they were much more than that. In particular, Genghis was a leader of genius, one of the greatest who ever lived. To rise from almost nothing to create the world’s greatest land empire is no mean achievement. His rise and the growth of the Empire deserve to be much more widely known.
IBR: What's next for John Man?
John Man: I’m fascinated by the history of Central Asia, of which Genghis is just a small part. I want to tackle the whole story of the steppes, their cultures and their impact on world history.
Publications:
John Man (1997) 'The Birth of our Planet'
Readers Digest Assn: ISBN: 0762101393
John Man (1997) 'Gobi: Tracking the Desert'
Yale University Press: ISBN: 0300076096
John Man (1999) 'Atlas of the Year 1000'
Harvard University Press: ISBN: 0674541871
John Man (2000) 'Alpha Beta: How 26 Letters Shaped the Western World'
Wiley: ISBN: 047141574X
John Man (2001) 'Comets, Meteors and Asteroids'
DK ADULT: ISBN: 0789481596
John Man (2003) 'The Gutenberg Revolution: The Story of a Genius and an
Invention That Changed the World'
Transworld Publishers: ISBN: 0553819666
John Man (2005) 'Genghis Khan: Life, Death and Resurrection'
St. Martin's Griffin: ISBN: 0312366248
John Man (2005) 'Attila: The Barbarian King Who Challenged Rome'
St. Martin's Griffin: ISBN: 0312539398
John Man (2006) 'Kublai Khan'
Bantam: ISBN: 0553817183
John Man (2007) 'The Terracotta Army'
Bantam: ISBN: 0553819143
John Man (2008) 'The Great Wall'
Da Capo Press: ISBN: 0306817675
John Man (2009) 'The Leadership Secrets of Genghis Khan'
Bantam: ISBN: 0553818759
John Man (2009) Xanadu: 'Marco Polo and Europe's Discovery of the East'
Transworld Publishers: ISBN: 8129107309
John Man (2011) 'Samurai: The Last Warrior'
William Morrow Paperbacks: ISBN: 0062202677
John Man (2012) 'Ninja: 1,000 Years of the Shadow Warriors'
William Morrow Paperbacks: ISBN: 0062202650
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